vat69 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Sometimes my PIR:s (NEXT K9-85 MCW) don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secware_Tech6 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 They shouldnt do that. The term is 'sleeping' and some sensors are more vulnerable to it. Id swap them as they are faulty. If you let me know the order number ill sort out the return. Support Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vat69 Posted May 6, 2009 Author Share Posted May 6, 2009 Thank you for fast reply! I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secware_Tech6 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Yes we will probably have to swap them. But just so that im sure. When you first power up the sensor, the led will work as normal. DO they cover as expected then? Also have you put the units into test mode to disable battery saving? ANd what is the pulse coulnt/sens setting set at. Support Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vat69 Posted May 7, 2009 Author Share Posted May 7, 2009 I just checked my PIR:s and found that the upper jumper was factoryset to EVENT2 - Highest false alarm protection. I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secware_Tech6 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Yes. Let me know how that goes. Support Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vat69 Posted May 8, 2009 Author Share Posted May 8, 2009 I'm afraid it didn't help to change the jumpersettings. They are still "sleeping", one of them more than the other but both failed. When I run diagnoses I sometimes get the meassages "NOT OK" from them when I do walktest. As I understand they should react immediately withut two minutes delay when I run diagnose. Please let me know about the next step to solve the problem. As it is now I'm very insecure especially since there have being two burglerings in the neighbourhood over the last six months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secware_Tech6 Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 No The 2 miniyte delay is at the sesnor and will not be disabled by the panel. You can disable it for a short period by removing and reinserting the battery. If you could do me a favour and test the system by vacating the room completly for 5 mins and then test? JAmes Support Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vat69 Posted May 8, 2009 Author Share Posted May 8, 2009 Of course I can do you a favour but it will take same time because they are only failed sometimes and not both at the same time. Give me a couple of days. Is it the first time you deal with a problem like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secware_Tech6 Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 yes and no. While you can have faulty sensors (im yet to see it on the powermax to be fair) it is usual either a setup problem, or people not waiting long enough for the battery save to clear. The pet sensors by design are slower than normal non pet sensors. James Support Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vat69 Posted May 9, 2009 Author Share Posted May 9, 2009 Today I spent most of the day to fulfill your request by vacate the house and stay outside for five min:s It took me nearly 3 hours! Here is the result: TOTAL ATTEMPTS. 20 FAILURES: Z01 Hall: 2 Z02 Livingroom : 3 REMARKS: The PIR:s didn't failed at the same time. The PIR in the hall react very different from time to time. Sometimes it react immediately when I came inside, other times it react after I have passed most of the hall and was 1 meter away. The PIR in the Living-room was sometimes completely dead and didn't react at all, even after several minutes walkaround the area. My Living-room is located at south with two windows and today we have summerlike weather. Maybe the PIR is unable to distinguish between body heat an room heat? If so it's impossible to use Powermax+ PIR in a location like this. What comes next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secware_Tech6 Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 sounds like they need to be swapped. Did you have the pet versions for any reason? Pet versions are a lot slower for obvious reasons Also what size rooms are they in. A sensor is designed to detect 2 steps accross the detector. They are slower directly towards them etc, that is why placement is important. Also you say the room is hot, how hot? you are right that sensors do struggle as the room approaches body temprature. Its difficult for us to know how your testing etc, but if you are sure they are faulty then we will swap them, however we will test them on return for a fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vat69 Posted May 9, 2009 Author Share Posted May 9, 2009 I have a dog approx 10 kg, that's way I use pet sensors. What happend if you found them OK? Do I have to pay for the new ones? I'm not doing this for fun or for have them swapped. Maybe the new ones also failed. I just wanted a reliable alarm system. The same goes for my insurance company. May hall is approx 5 meter long. My livingroom is approx 22 squaremeters. If you wanted I can mail drawings over the area with the PIR:s marked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vat69 Posted May 9, 2009 Author Share Posted May 9, 2009 My dog was not involved in the test procedure. Hi was sleeping in a bedroom upstairs. You also mentioned earlier that it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secware_Tech6 Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 vat Sorry if you feel i was questioning your credabilty as that was not my intention. To be clear if we feel the sensors are faulty we will swap them. I was just trying to make you aware of a std returns procedure as im sure you understand most parts are returned without fault. However. re my temprature comment. (mainly as i dont know what country your in etc) To clarify a PIR works by detecting an increase or decrease in temprature withont he detection pattern. As a rule this is 1.6 - 2 degrees different. Human body temperture is 37 degrees C So in a room measuring 37 degrees it would be impossible for a pir to detect a naked human. However this is rarley the case. Usually you may have an ambient temp of 37, but the walls would be cooler, the windowa warmer etc. The clothing of the target would also be cooler, but without the contrast between the 2 tempratures then detection is impossible. When visonic read this they will confirm this. However. You also have temprature compensation. This increases the detection sensitivty of the detector as the ambient temp increases. This then lowers the 1.6 degrees to say 1 and beyond to ensure a detection. However that doesnt help us resolve the current issue. IM not convinced myself at this point the units are faulty but for goodwill etc will authorise an RMA. This will give you option 1. I will be happy to post my findings when they are tested, but it will purly be for infomation purposes. Please understand i was trying to get the bottom of the issue as 90% of the time its a setup or mounting height issue, not faulty components. Im sure you can understand this. James Support Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vat69 Posted May 11, 2009 Author Share Posted May 11, 2009 No hard feelings! Thank you for a very detailed explanation about PIR:s. It maybe benefit other viewers to. It maybe explain why I've noticed that the PIR:s are more sensitive in evenings than in daylight. I'm and old retired man from Sweden (74) and when it comes to alarmsystem I sometimes compare my self with Manuel in Fawlty Towers: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secware_Tech6 Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Ok let me know how that goes. re interference. No. Being a passive device (Passive infra red) they cannot transmit anything to interfere with another unit, like say a dualtec could. Its technially possible with wireless that the signals could collide but that would not affect the led and they retransmit anyway. Support Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vat69 Posted May 15, 2009 Author Share Posted May 15, 2009 I've exchanged the PIR:s as mentioned above. Just to be sure that the lenses not caused the failure i changed both circuitbord and lenscover. After the exchange I clean the lenses with a dry fibercloth. Believe or not: the PIR:s functions perfect. They're flashing like a Christmas tree. I assume that I left fingerprints at the lenses when mounting and that's enough to disturb the detection. In a Swedish forum an expert said that sensors after five years lost 50% of their capacity and need to be replaced. Now you can add one more option to the test procedure: Clean the lens after mounting!!! That's all needed. Where can I find stickers to the windows? They used to be included. I apologize if you found me rough and annoying but please understand that it's difficult to express opinions in a foreign language Thanks for your help. I'm very pleased with both Powermax+ and Security Warehouse.. I've order one more PIR! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secware_Tech6 Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 vat I apologize if you found me rough and annoying but please understand that it's difficult to express opinions in a foreign language Thanks for your help. not at all, i was just trying to express that few of these types of issues result in a faulty component. The pet sensors are slight;y slower in detection terms than the non pet but obviously not as bad as you were expereinceing. Anywaqy im glad you got it sorted. re the 5 yr thing. That is usually down to the lens. The plastic in the lens 'can' be attacked by uv, so if the lens experiences exposure to UV (direct / indirect sunlight) then it can attack and damage the lens. This will then cause issues re focusing for the pyro. The batteries will need to replaced between 3 and 5 yrs depending on activity. Support Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vat69 Posted May 16, 2009 Author Share Posted May 16, 2009 Case closed. Happy end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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